Theist v/s Atheist.
Ever since debate started, it was always between atheist and theist. Back In ’84 I was working in chola-sheraton.it is five star super deluxe hotels. On coffee break time our small canteen over flow with workers. I was having coffee and cigarette. Two tables away there was heated debate was going on. Guys were talking about god.
One semi-atheist was arguing with all other theist that there is no god. Too bad, he could not sustain his arguments. He was fighting a losing battle. The entire theist stated verbally abusing him. Few more augments by atheist he would be kicked around. I tried to defuse the situation. All of them pounced on me. One of the evangelist Alfonse (evangelists are the most fanatics of all, given a chance they will convert world population into Christianity) others including Muslims and Hindu fundamentalist. Argument always starts whether god exits or not. As the arguments, rages on theist would like to go back in history. They ask stupid question like who created our earth and human beings. These theist, you know when they cannot find answer (Infact they will never find the answer because they refuse to think rationally) they like to claim (blame) it on act of god! O.K they asked me same stupid question. Who created our earth?
I had given them small briefing about big bang theory. (Read universal love first part in the beginning) .they all made fun of me....
I…”Earth was not formed in one day. It took more than four and half billon years to form our present day earth”. What else do you think? ). O.K, I agree … One-day your god decided to make earth. Like we make laddu (ball shaped hand made Inidan sweet, he sat there and made biggest Laddu that is our earth! Now you tell me who had created our earth, was it Moses, Allaha or Brahma? (According to Hindus, Brahama created our universe).
When they stated augments with me, they were all from different religion and cast. As the argument went on, they all agreed that there is only one HOD for all. The one and only all mighty god .it only happen when it comes to god. They also agreed HOD is known by different name. Now the creator of universe is one single god. Why this theist never realize this simple fact. Then the whole problem in this world could have been solved much earlier. Always remember root of the war/conflict is always based on god, religion or cast.
Where is the proof that God had created universe. Tell me who had created this universe. Was it your Mosses, Allaha or Brahama?
I…O.K I agreed it was your HOD (creator of universe) who created earth. Who created man”?
They all said in unison. “Of course it was our HOD who created every thing in this universe”.
I …As per Christians God had created Eva and Adam. Right? And they produced children. And their children produced children and their children produced children (repeat).
As per available scientific evidence, God had not created man first. He had created dinosaurs, trynasuras and his predecessors. Oldest human skeletons are not more than 2 00,000 years .it belong to a woman .it was named as ‘Eva’. Modern men are only 30,000 years old .they found the evidence at Sumatra Island. Man evolved from apes. Between chimps and human there is more than 95 % similarity is there. Scientists are searching for the elusive missing link”. (In those days, I was not aware about “intellectual design”. By the way, what the heck is that? Now scientists are after “God particles. Some other day they will go after God testicles! Most of the scientists believe in God! I just cannot digest it
Evangelist…No wonder you looks like an ape. Others laughed at my expense.
I … yeah! ‘Our’ ancestors were apes. Now show me any one of your god in blood and flesh”.
I got their readymade answer. Your cannot see God!
I …Can I hear him?
They all said in unison… No. you can not hear him!”
I ….Can I feel his presence?
Chorus…... “You can not feel his presence!
I … “Bull shit! Then what heck is that MAN? This is how I had explained to them. “Air you can not see but you can feel it when you move your ass though the air, light you can not hear but you can see it.
Sound you cannot see it but you can hear it... no one can see your God, hear him nor can his presence be felt. Your God is supposed to be immortal and omnipresent .If your god cannot be tested under existing most sophisticated scientific equipments in this world THEN YOUR GOD DOES NOT EXIST. PEROID! NOW you all stop bullshiting me.”
Evangelist got angry with me. Now he wanted to know who had created me!
Evangelist…. Who had created you?
I …you ask any kid. He will show you demonstration how to produce babies. Any healthy person can produce babies. Where is the act of god there?” Now scientist can produce babies by cloning. Now with out the help of male they can make babies! Where is the act of god here?
I... “Certainly not by the act of God, It was not my fault that I was born .my father is the culprit!”
Evangelist… “What is the proof that you belong to your father?”
Those words hit me like tons of weight. My Pentium 2 processor (Brain) blinked. The least I expected my superior would ask some thing like that. I gaped and I blinked like a tube light. By the time, my processor processed necessary data. I am no good at tit for tat. BASTARD! He is questioning my mother’s chastity .I decided to repay him with same coin.
I …. I am answering you by asking another question. O.K?”
Evangelist... “NO, NO, you answer me first”
I … “I can answer your question, now you tell me who had created you”?
Infact he wanted to de-humanize me in front of the entire co-worker. He started his argument about god. His intention was to insult me when he could not defend his God. I had answered his question with same question. Since he had asked me an indecent question, I was adamant that he answer me first. I can always answer him scientifically.
At last, other insisted him to answer me.
Evangelist.. “Of course by the grace of God!” where is the act of his father? If he was born by the act of God then what his father was doing? Holding light for God?
I …Then where is the proof that you belong to your father”?
Evangelist … “My mother told me he is my father!
I thought if his mother had made-up her mind and showed him some one else would he be calling him father?
I… "So if your mother had pointed at some one would you be calling the other person also father?"
Such situation happens not only in reel life but some times in real life too. It blew off his fuse. He got up...... Other pulled him down.
I … "These are an augment not a fight .sit down and listen to me. When I asked you same question you could not answer me. You should have though about it, before you asked me this same question. I have scientific answer for you. My parents are still alive. There is some thing knows, as DNA test to prove my parentage .I did not stop there I went on…
“Like you theist can only relay on your mothers word".
He was quick enough to realize the subtle meaning of my words.
Evangelist …" Are you trying to tell me that my mother was a loose character"?
I …. "I did not say that .if you had taken my answer in different context, then I am not responsible. I was trying to tell you police, law enforcing agency, and world community need scientific proof. With DNA, one can be sure of their parents. . DNA tests are used to determine the parentage of child in question….and to find rapist" Etc.
Even though he was convinced, his ego did not permit him to talk to me. Later he got a better job and we all give him warm sendoff. Each one of us had to shake hand with him. I congratulated him for getting good job. But he refused to talk to me. He took it as personnel insult!
When arguments take place we atheist try to brainwash theist, In return they tries to brain wash us. In the end both, we try to remain what we are!
************
Here is one more example
Theist... “Who created you”?
Atheist (I) “my parents, it was not my fault that I was born. They made mistakes by creating me”.
Theist ...” who created your parents”?
Atheist…”my Grand parents too committed same mistake”
Theist…” who created your grand parents… and this will go on and on….till they ask you who created man”?
Atheist…” Evolution theory is the answer. He will try to explain with his limited knowledge. Theist v/s Atheist debate will attract lot of attention. Soon others will join the debate. Whether the theist he is illiterate or literate he will never tries to understand ‘evolution theory’ because when it comes to god he does not want to think rationally. They will switch questions from god to universe and beyond. When an atheist can not explain scientifically god and phenomena theist will make sarcastic remarks and others (mute spectators) also will start belittling you, most of the time they try to humiliate you. So, it is almost impossible for atheists to defend his explanations about god, universe and beyond.
For an atheist there one last option is left. For that you have to agree with your enemy theist! That is to repay him with same coin! Then the fun begins.
Atheist “O.K, Good. God created man, pigs and the whole universe. Now you tell me who created God?”
Theist “Nobody create god! Only god creates and others procreate!! How can anybody create god? That is god!!!
Atheist “To create some thing you need material and creator. Now you are telling me without material and creator god was created!” You mean god was created out of thin air?
Theist... ‘God is everything and he needs nothing to make something’. That is God for you!” can you make some thing out of nothing?
Atheist ...” Yeah…, yeah. What sort of answer is that? When you have no answer you ‘blame’ God for creating everything!
Atheist... “Your God was created out of nothing? And he created everything out of nothing? Your god is very interesting subject. You know our scientists are yet to develop something out of nothing. Whey no education system had incorporated your god in school syllabus?
Theist “you need to study god only at your religious schools or places of worship.
Atheist “So, Nothingness called God” No history…. No biology… Nothing? Do you believe in nothing?
Theist... “Yes, nothing makes everything. That is called god. Infact he had created everything out of nothing including our universe!!
Atheist. Your common sense should tell you that you can not make something out of nothing, even it not scientifically possible to make something out of nothing. Now will yaa.. STOP your bull shitting to me? Theist will get angry and will start abusing you. Beware some of the extremist like evangelists will turn violent.
“if people from all the religion realize that there is one all mighty God for all of you, then the world would be a better place to live-in. the least there won’t be war in the name of God ,religion and cast” jivan.
It is not just in Bolly Wood movies that a dying mother tells her son .she makes sure that her husband is not around “Bata, Thu Mar-ra Pitha-ji duplicate hai! Your genuine Pitha-ji
Wo-Jo Lord Karam Chand Sait hai!! (Son, your father is duplicate. Your genuine father is Lord Karam Chand Sait!) And she dies…
Son….”MAAAAAAAAA…..AAAAAAAAAAA………AAAAAAAAA (Echo). He falls at her feet. …..
He gets up. (Camera gradually zooms on his face…. Close up short) lighting strikes him repeatedly. His face turn red, he blood boils, his ears start flapping, his frog like nostrils throbs. Suddenly he screams. (He was paid to foul mouth few dialogs) No. he swears on top of his voice.” ku-thy, Kaminay…Karam Chand Sait Thum-Nay Mare Maa Ka izzeth loooota Thu-May , May Zinda Nahi Choodu-Gi!” (You DOG, Karam Chand Sait, you had stolen my mother’s chastity. I will not spare your life... BLAHA …BALHA….
INTERVEL
It happens not only in reel life but also in real life too. For a theist what his or her mother says is god’s words. For an atheist he need proof .if he is in doubt he will go in for DNA test.
When you foreigner come to India you better avoid arguments / debates. An average Inidan is a fragile egomaniac. When you argue /debate with him, he will take it as personnel insult and he gets angry. He will raise his decibel level to draw the attention of others into his arguments. People with herd mentality will join with him and it will be all ‘free’ for you. Do not trust me.
Watch IBN-CNN, still better if you can watch Inidan parliament debate on our national network .one will wonder are those rouges are representing us. National shame.
I believe when you argue /debating with someone, you are enriching your knowledge .if not, you observing how much the other person know about the particular subject. Do not try to bulldoze your way through, .instead you ask more stupid questions. He will blurt out every thing he knows about that particular subject. This will give you an opportunity to check his gray matters.
I was able answer most of their questions, for some question I had to convince them that some miracle or natural phenomena need scientific research or scientific technology to explain which you theist will not allow if it is about your god or religion.
Unlike debate in the west, here in India debate is not healthy one .I think by debating or arguing we are learning some thing new. In that process, we are learning things, which we were not aware of it. Debate soon became augments and the winning team will raise their decibel level. Most of the augment split the group into two and usually it end in free for all.
Ever since debate started, it was always between atheist and theist. Back In ’84 I was working in chola-sheraton.it is five star super deluxe hotels. On coffee break time our small canteen over flow with workers. I was having coffee and cigarette. Two tables away there was heated debate was going on. Guys were talking about god.
One semi-atheist was arguing with all other theist that there is no god. Too bad, he could not sustain his arguments. He was fighting a losing battle. The entire theist stated verbally abusing him. Few more augments by atheist he would be kicked around. I tried to defuse the situation. All of them pounced on me. One of the evangelist Alfonse (evangelists are the most fanatics of all, given a chance they will convert world population into Christianity) others including Muslims and Hindu fundamentalist. Argument always starts whether god exits or not. As the arguments, rages on theist would like to go back in history. They ask stupid question like who created our earth and human beings. These theist, you know when they cannot find answer (Infact they will never find the answer because they refuse to think rationally) they like to claim (blame) it on act of god! O.K they asked me same stupid question. Who created our earth?
I had given them small briefing about big bang theory. (Read universal love first part in the beginning) .they all made fun of me....
I…”Earth was not formed in one day. It took more than four and half billon years to form our present day earth”. What else do you think? ). O.K, I agree … One-day your god decided to make earth. Like we make laddu (ball shaped hand made Inidan sweet, he sat there and made biggest Laddu that is our earth! Now you tell me who had created our earth, was it Moses, Allaha or Brahma? (According to Hindus, Brahama created our universe).
When they stated augments with me, they were all from different religion and cast. As the argument went on, they all agreed that there is only one HOD for all. The one and only all mighty god .it only happen when it comes to god. They also agreed HOD is known by different name. Now the creator of universe is one single god. Why this theist never realize this simple fact. Then the whole problem in this world could have been solved much earlier. Always remember root of the war/conflict is always based on god, religion or cast.
Where is the proof that God had created universe. Tell me who had created this universe. Was it your Mosses, Allaha or Brahama?
I…O.K I agreed it was your HOD (creator of universe) who created earth. Who created man”?
They all said in unison. “Of course it was our HOD who created every thing in this universe”.
I …As per Christians God had created Eva and Adam. Right? And they produced children. And their children produced children and their children produced children (repeat).
As per available scientific evidence, God had not created man first. He had created dinosaurs, trynasuras and his predecessors. Oldest human skeletons are not more than 2 00,000 years .it belong to a woman .it was named as ‘Eva’. Modern men are only 30,000 years old .they found the evidence at Sumatra Island. Man evolved from apes. Between chimps and human there is more than 95 % similarity is there. Scientists are searching for the elusive missing link”. (In those days, I was not aware about “intellectual design”. By the way, what the heck is that? Now scientists are after “God particles. Some other day they will go after God testicles! Most of the scientists believe in God! I just cannot digest it
Evangelist…No wonder you looks like an ape. Others laughed at my expense.
I … yeah! ‘Our’ ancestors were apes. Now show me any one of your god in blood and flesh”.
I got their readymade answer. Your cannot see God!
I …Can I hear him?
They all said in unison… No. you can not hear him!”
I ….Can I feel his presence?
Chorus…... “You can not feel his presence!
I … “Bull shit! Then what heck is that MAN? This is how I had explained to them. “Air you can not see but you can feel it when you move your ass though the air, light you can not hear but you can see it.
Sound you cannot see it but you can hear it... no one can see your God, hear him nor can his presence be felt. Your God is supposed to be immortal and omnipresent .If your god cannot be tested under existing most sophisticated scientific equipments in this world THEN YOUR GOD DOES NOT EXIST. PEROID! NOW you all stop bullshiting me.”
Evangelist got angry with me. Now he wanted to know who had created me!
Evangelist…. Who had created you?
I …you ask any kid. He will show you demonstration how to produce babies. Any healthy person can produce babies. Where is the act of god there?” Now scientist can produce babies by cloning. Now with out the help of male they can make babies! Where is the act of god here?
I... “Certainly not by the act of God, It was not my fault that I was born .my father is the culprit!”
Evangelist… “What is the proof that you belong to your father?”
Those words hit me like tons of weight. My Pentium 2 processor (Brain) blinked. The least I expected my superior would ask some thing like that. I gaped and I blinked like a tube light. By the time, my processor processed necessary data. I am no good at tit for tat. BASTARD! He is questioning my mother’s chastity .I decided to repay him with same coin.
I …. I am answering you by asking another question. O.K?”
Evangelist... “NO, NO, you answer me first”
I … “I can answer your question, now you tell me who had created you”?
Infact he wanted to de-humanize me in front of the entire co-worker. He started his argument about god. His intention was to insult me when he could not defend his God. I had answered his question with same question. Since he had asked me an indecent question, I was adamant that he answer me first. I can always answer him scientifically.
At last, other insisted him to answer me.
Evangelist.. “Of course by the grace of God!” where is the act of his father? If he was born by the act of God then what his father was doing? Holding light for God?
I …Then where is the proof that you belong to your father”?
Evangelist … “My mother told me he is my father!
I thought if his mother had made-up her mind and showed him some one else would he be calling him father?
I… "So if your mother had pointed at some one would you be calling the other person also father?"
Such situation happens not only in reel life but some times in real life too. It blew off his fuse. He got up...... Other pulled him down.
I … "These are an augment not a fight .sit down and listen to me. When I asked you same question you could not answer me. You should have though about it, before you asked me this same question. I have scientific answer for you. My parents are still alive. There is some thing knows, as DNA test to prove my parentage .I did not stop there I went on…
“Like you theist can only relay on your mothers word".
He was quick enough to realize the subtle meaning of my words.
Evangelist …" Are you trying to tell me that my mother was a loose character"?
I …. "I did not say that .if you had taken my answer in different context, then I am not responsible. I was trying to tell you police, law enforcing agency, and world community need scientific proof. With DNA, one can be sure of their parents. . DNA tests are used to determine the parentage of child in question….and to find rapist" Etc.
Even though he was convinced, his ego did not permit him to talk to me. Later he got a better job and we all give him warm sendoff. Each one of us had to shake hand with him. I congratulated him for getting good job. But he refused to talk to me. He took it as personnel insult!
When arguments take place we atheist try to brainwash theist, In return they tries to brain wash us. In the end both, we try to remain what we are!
************
Here is one more example
Theist... “Who created you”?
Atheist (I) “my parents, it was not my fault that I was born. They made mistakes by creating me”.
Theist ...” who created your parents”?
Atheist…”my Grand parents too committed same mistake”
Theist…” who created your grand parents… and this will go on and on….till they ask you who created man”?
Atheist…” Evolution theory is the answer. He will try to explain with his limited knowledge. Theist v/s Atheist debate will attract lot of attention. Soon others will join the debate. Whether the theist he is illiterate or literate he will never tries to understand ‘evolution theory’ because when it comes to god he does not want to think rationally. They will switch questions from god to universe and beyond. When an atheist can not explain scientifically god and phenomena theist will make sarcastic remarks and others (mute spectators) also will start belittling you, most of the time they try to humiliate you. So, it is almost impossible for atheists to defend his explanations about god, universe and beyond.
For an atheist there one last option is left. For that you have to agree with your enemy theist! That is to repay him with same coin! Then the fun begins.
Atheist “O.K, Good. God created man, pigs and the whole universe. Now you tell me who created God?”
Theist “Nobody create god! Only god creates and others procreate!! How can anybody create god? That is god!!!
Atheist “To create some thing you need material and creator. Now you are telling me without material and creator god was created!” You mean god was created out of thin air?
Theist... ‘God is everything and he needs nothing to make something’. That is God for you!” can you make some thing out of nothing?
Atheist ...” Yeah…, yeah. What sort of answer is that? When you have no answer you ‘blame’ God for creating everything!
Atheist... “Your God was created out of nothing? And he created everything out of nothing? Your god is very interesting subject. You know our scientists are yet to develop something out of nothing. Whey no education system had incorporated your god in school syllabus?
Theist “you need to study god only at your religious schools or places of worship.
Atheist “So, Nothingness called God” No history…. No biology… Nothing? Do you believe in nothing?
Theist... “Yes, nothing makes everything. That is called god. Infact he had created everything out of nothing including our universe!!
Atheist. Your common sense should tell you that you can not make something out of nothing, even it not scientifically possible to make something out of nothing. Now will yaa.. STOP your bull shitting to me? Theist will get angry and will start abusing you. Beware some of the extremist like evangelists will turn violent.
“if people from all the religion realize that there is one all mighty God for all of you, then the world would be a better place to live-in. the least there won’t be war in the name of God ,religion and cast” jivan.
It is not just in Bolly Wood movies that a dying mother tells her son .she makes sure that her husband is not around “Bata, Thu Mar-ra Pitha-ji duplicate hai! Your genuine Pitha-ji
Wo-Jo Lord Karam Chand Sait hai!! (Son, your father is duplicate. Your genuine father is Lord Karam Chand Sait!) And she dies…
Son….”MAAAAAAAAA…..AAAAAAAAAAA………AAAAAAAAA (Echo). He falls at her feet. …..
He gets up. (Camera gradually zooms on his face…. Close up short) lighting strikes him repeatedly. His face turn red, he blood boils, his ears start flapping, his frog like nostrils throbs. Suddenly he screams. (He was paid to foul mouth few dialogs) No. he swears on top of his voice.” ku-thy, Kaminay…Karam Chand Sait Thum-Nay Mare Maa Ka izzeth loooota Thu-May , May Zinda Nahi Choodu-Gi!” (You DOG, Karam Chand Sait, you had stolen my mother’s chastity. I will not spare your life... BLAHA …BALHA….
INTERVEL
It happens not only in reel life but also in real life too. For a theist what his or her mother says is god’s words. For an atheist he need proof .if he is in doubt he will go in for DNA test.
When you foreigner come to India you better avoid arguments / debates. An average Inidan is a fragile egomaniac. When you argue /debate with him, he will take it as personnel insult and he gets angry. He will raise his decibel level to draw the attention of others into his arguments. People with herd mentality will join with him and it will be all ‘free’ for you. Do not trust me.
Watch IBN-CNN, still better if you can watch Inidan parliament debate on our national network .one will wonder are those rouges are representing us. National shame.
I believe when you argue /debating with someone, you are enriching your knowledge .if not, you observing how much the other person know about the particular subject. Do not try to bulldoze your way through, .instead you ask more stupid questions. He will blurt out every thing he knows about that particular subject. This will give you an opportunity to check his gray matters.
I was able answer most of their questions, for some question I had to convince them that some miracle or natural phenomena need scientific research or scientific technology to explain which you theist will not allow if it is about your god or religion.
Unlike debate in the west, here in India debate is not healthy one .I think by debating or arguing we are learning some thing new. In that process, we are learning things, which we were not aware of it. Debate soon became augments and the winning team will raise their decibel level. Most of the augment split the group into two and usually it end in free for all.
